Vertical Clearance Flashwave, check out the two attached crude drawings. The downward helix grade begins at point A. By point B sufficient clearance should be obtained for Goodyear spur to be level across bridge an onto Goodyear yard. Agree? (sorry, haven't incorporated your between building idea although will, am likin' it.) Refer to second drawing for Goodyear building elevation view at point C. View as if seen horizontally from Firestone. Again, point B is where clearance concern is.
Yeesh. It'll be tight. Doing some quick math, you have a helix of approximately 320" in length from start to finish. Are you running Autoracks and Doublestacks? If so, you'll need about 2.5 inches between Point B and the Helix. I'd measure an Autorack though to make sure, I don't have one handy right at the moment. Otherwise, you can shave it to 2 inches. From top to Point B works out as ~160 inches. If your dropping 2.5" over 160, I'm getting a grade of 1.5%. I think you can do it. When you do your trackwork, make sure that gets tested throughly, it would be a nasty place to get a rack hung up at.
Correct my math Is my math right for the drawing? radius = 34" diameter = 68" circumference = 213.6" 4" drop in 213.6" = 1" per 53.4" % full circle from enter Goodyear to under bridge = +75% 213.6 * 0.75 = 160.2" 160.2" / 53.4" = 3 sneaking in extra 14% (light blue line) adds 8.3" length 8.3" / 53.4" = .15" (1/8") Radius + sneak = 3.125" 3.125" - 3/4" track+roadbed = 2.375 (2 3/8")
Um, probably. They look like mine, I didn't post out my steps, nore did I figure portal height (the 3.125). But it looks sound. Thopugh I'm not sure that 2.4" is enough. I will report back tomorrow with a measured Auto-rack, I hope. Remember then that 1/53.4 is >1.5 & >a 2% grade. beyond that, my head hurts. And not to contest yo, but I am confused on your enginehouse. You have one track going into it, and one track beside it, going towards what I'd call the offices or tool shop. Teh satillite images to me show one track going into it (across the turntable) possibly back out the back end (there's a hopper parked there). There's a track going into the turntable, a fuel rack with a W&LE engine on it. There's also one going out towards the lease engine (mainline?) And it looks like in the parking lot is the remains to a side track, but it ain't connected. Was it before?
Bigger Helix Here We Come Working now to increase Goodyear helix radius. For the small sacrifice in isle width at a single pinch point it will be well worth it I think. Received several comments from others thinking Brittain yard turnout arrangement won't work because of actual turnout dimensions and angles. Using fast track jig templates at scale to test. If you haven't tried it the fast track templates were originally made in Illustrator. So is my track plan. Sweet! Wish I had realized this from the get go. Illustrator and fast track templates = railroad design software!!! I'm rockin' now. Got a busy work week ahead of me. Probably won't be back on forums until next weekend. Enjoy!
I saw the mention ont he blogs. We'll see ya next weekend, I'm curious as to where else the LK&O is being discussed, as I'd love to see their thoughts. As to Goodyear, if the issue is still clearence, then I'd just take the grade to 2% and savew yorself the pinch point. It would also be easier on you to build than trying to wing a grade of 1.87% (100/53.4) It means you may need to run another AC&Y FM, but aw shucks. hee hee. If however, we like bigger better badder, then by all means, LET'S GET IT BIG.
Forums Here with you, MRH, MRR, ACYHS Check out the cool pics Bob Lucas just sent me of an actual tipple that Goodyear owned and operated way back when. The design, loading tracks, etc. are just right for on the Kitzmiller mountain. I have no emotional connection to the tipple in Maryland. Matter of fact I don't have a connection with any tipple so the field is wide open for the design I use. Kinda neat doing one that actually loaded cars that moved on ACY rails! You are reading my mind again. Thought about increasing the helix grade which then led to MU which then led to a big grin on my face. I have 8 brand spankin new Atlas H16-44's sitting right beside me. Decoders installed itchin to pull something. Dare I even consider distributed power??? 8 of them should be able to get a few cars to the top of the helix!
Yard labels Did you get a chance to check out the yard track labels diagram? Have I got them all screwed up? I compared John Armstrong's diagrams to the Google Earth view of the AC&Y to come up with what is shown in the diagram.
BTW I almost forgot to tell you. Thank you very much for the very well worded, well explained defense of the track plan on the MRH forum. Your explanation was spot on. Not a single error. I think what may be throwing some people is the use of a 12" grid in place of the more customary 24" grid. As you know all of the main radii are at least 30", the yard is all 24" with the exception of two 18" sections. Even the interchange to staging is 24". News flash... Laid several of the fast tracks templates on the plan. Appears it is going to work sweet. #6's and #8's fit fine in most spots. There may be quite a few spendy curved turnouts but what the hey, it's only money! Again, thanks.
Sure have, looks right to me. And the Belt Line interchange can serve as a longer lead track as needed, since I don't see it being busy. Your welcome on the MRH, I'll poke in the MRR forum, I haven't been in the Layout portion in a while, I tend to stay in the General Discussion.
Home Sweet Home This same post appears on multiple forums. I apologize for the redundancy but want to share same information with all that are so kindly helping me. The windy city is a memory now I am back home. I'll be back in railroad design mode this evening but first want to thank everyone for their critique and comments of the proposed LK&O. I want to assure you none are taken with offense. Gladly accepting any and all comments be them love it or hate it or somewhere in between. I have aggregated the comments received here and elsewhere as my "Needs Attention" list for this evening's work. I added a few comments to some. If you discover more items or have more improvement ideas I am all ears. I'll get to work on resolving these known issues and re-post an updated plan when finished. One very important point is the track plan is merely a guide. It is not meant to be exact with respect to frog angles at this time. Some rearrangement of track is fully expected during the paper template layout session. Benchwork Use aisles 36-40” wide Aisles are minimum 36" Build bench work in modules Already in G&D Trackwork - Industries Insufficient siding length to switch Goodyear complex Goodyear complex spur grade too steep No grade at Goodyear spur Goodyear complex turnouts too optimistic Longer siding at Firestone Train in tunnel when switching Mettiki mine Train cannot be visible behind Addition Alley No runaround near mine Mettiki mine own runaround too short to build trains Use 22” minimum radius for industrial sidings Trackwork - Yard Brittain yard turnouts less than #4 Brittain yard curves too sharp Need longer engine service track Double slip bad at yard throat Longer yard lead Trackwork - General 18” curves are a problem Split X crossing in Lapeer into separate turnouts Go over not under river with Kitzmiller line Low bridge in place Interchange track are too complicated Staging track imbalance Staging tracks are balanced now Access Mettiki mine tracks out of reach Sufficient access to Mettiki mine helix? Helix accessible from underneath, rear is open Goodyear helix access Helix accessible from underneath Goodyear track not accessible Scenery Hide helix with buildings? Add gravel pit since is part of Brittain yard prototype Scenery gap between Brittain and Lapeer too small High track rounding Potomac river corner will cause scenery issue Dimensional Drawing not to scale Drawing is done to scale Use turnout templates to physically lay out plan Planned, want paper as best as possible first Insufficient helix clearance below Mettiki mine Goodyear helix clearance issue Need to facilitate oversize cars (auto racks) No long cars desired, look silly on my curves Other Turnouts w/wo decoder control Turnout control defined in G&D
hey flashwave you still out there? quick note to let you know i didn't fall off the planet. been hyper busy with the company. not much time for rr'in lately. will be back but have to tend to business stuff for a while. be cool.
No problem. I saw the blog post about the center room and figured you were trying to get physical work done so the trackplan had a place to reside, and wasn't terribly worried. Hadn't seen anything post ofn MRH either since I commented on the Double Slip, either.
Completely New Approach A new track plan that I am very happy with. Check it out http://www.lkorailroad.com/track-plan/ Flashwave, check this plan against the G&D. I do believe I nailed it. What do you think?
That's impressive! Am I reading it right that the line is now point-to-point? (It does get rid of helixes) or did I miss a return loop somewhere?
that's the genius of it. it is a point-to-point / loop to loop hybrid. my second inspiration is in how the staging (completing the loop-to-loop) is devised. i'll have that posted on the site shortly. am building it in XTrackCAD so as not to get so many "un-buildable" comments. stay tuned.
Ah ha! Hence why the grey helix is still in the bottom right corner. Staging will do marvelous too, and I love the engine facility. A far more flatering locale for those H10s than the reality.
First off welcome to TrainBoard. The newbies board. Gosh, I'm overwhelmed and don't know where to start. Obviously the fun has started. I love planning a railroad, seeing it through the construction stage, operating trains and seeing the finishing touches added. But then what? Have fun!
