Great point! Thanks for helping us keep things in perspective. I wonder if there's any demonstrable correlation between exposure to real trains and an interest in model railroading as a hobby? Now that train sets are a much less ubiquitous Christmas present than they were, say, 50 years ago, what other avenues, in addition to exposure to real trains, Thomas, and model train shows, are there that might stimulate an interest in our hobby?
I remember going to Toys R Us as a kid and there was an entire isle dedicated to model trains. I recently went to one and couldn't find a train anywhere except for some wooden Thomas stuff. The video game section has pretty much taken over.
One of my dedicated Model Train LHS's has a working layout, DCC-equipped, that people are free to try out (with some gentle guidance from the staff). Guess who runs the trains the most? Right: the kids!
I wonder if a LHS that devoted some space to a model RR layout _in progress_ with scheduled workshops might help kindle more interest in the hobby, especially if the techniques employed were "easy" enough that people wouldn't freak out thinking how complicated/time-consuming/expensive the hobby was?
Hey same thing happend to me! I bought my first HO train set at Toys R' Us in the mid to late 90's. I must of been 11 or 12. (still have some pieces from it) I also have this old bag of Earth with a price sticker that says toys r us. Hard to believe you could once get a train set and Woodland Scencis products at Toys R Us. Anyway, went in their for the first time in years. No model trains! I was surprised to see that the Thomas Toy Trains section was very large. It wasn't nearly as big as when I was into that stuff. EDIT: meant to quote the person who talked about Toys R Us.
An interesting collection of thoughts and theories, to which I have to add my two cents (plus sales tax). Not sure if I count as a younger modeller or not, having yet to break that big 30 figure; but I was always fascinated by trains as a child and that aspect of the hobby has stayed with me I was also given model trains when I was young (too young to really appreciate them, alas). At various repeats through the teenage years I would express an interest in starting a layout; but money and tools and skill and enduring motivation aren't always available to a teenager. Now, however, I have the land grant, and the power tools. I've painted the backdrop - and played video games while waiting for the paint to dry - and started laying track. I still like video games; but not as much as when I was younger - I often feel I "don't have time" for them, coming home after work and instead sitting on The Internet / Google Earth, or playing with the layout. I also have to echo what Grey One did say way back on Page 1... That it takes five to ten years to build a layout? Where's the (instant) gratification in that? I guess I'm trying to bet on still living in this house in 5-10 years time. That or the Duck River Sub is doomed to dismantling and moving...
I think you've hit on one of the biggest barriers to entry into this hobby - the work-to-gratification ratio. This has always been my biggest frustration with this hobby. I'm a model railroader because I like to run trains (both around- and-around and something like prototypical operations). When my layouts have been in a state where I can't run trains, I tend to become disinterested and go do something else. The two solutions I've come up with are: 1. Build something quickly that works, then go back and improve it incrementally until it's the way I want it. 2. Build the layout in pieces, whether you call them modules or dominoes or whatever. Currently I'm blessed with a space that's 31' x 27'. There is no way I would ever undertake a Basement Behemoth where it takes 2 years to build the benchwork, etc. Like you said, who knows how long you're going to be in your house? (Maybe you don't even HAVE a house!) [Heck, at my age, who knows if I'm even going to live long enough to finish a ten-year layout?] By building in modules (I use Hollow-Core Doors), if I ever move I will be able to take the whole thing apart in a short time, move the modules to whatever new location I end up in, and set them up again (even if I have to reconfigure the layout based on space) fairly quickly. My first module was a 24" x 80" (one HCD) switching plan that was designed to connect at both ends to the "rest of the world" eventually. As a test to see how quickly I could go from ground zero to running trains, I used grass & roadway mats & strips, pre- fab trees, flex track, built-up structures (mainly), manual ground throws for the turnouts -- any reasonably decent-looking shortcut I could think of. Faster than I would have thought possible, I was running trains, and it looked quite passable, thank you. Since then I've spent a bit more time adding details like ballast for the track (yes, right over the grass mat!), bushes, industrial litter around the yard, etc., so now almost nobody even notices the grass mat, etc.
Born in the 40's, I recall going downtown each and every Christmas and seeing that marvelous layout in the department store window. And Seattle had an afternoon cartoon hour hosted by a one "Brakeman Bill" who had a layout and loved trains just as much as the kids who watched the show. The Bon Marche (now Bon Macy's) once had a "Train Store" that sold everything even into the 70's but no more. And who doesn't remember the half hour long Casey Jones show that used to come on every week, featuring some story that had in it trains as a by-product? If it weren't for Thomas the Tank Engine, I'm afraid we wouldn't have a lot of young modelers today.
I am 25 and i consider myself a young model railroader. By far i am the youngest in my local club with i think the second youngest is in the uper 30's. Most of my friends who did model railroading when they were younger these days are either have no time, space, or money to do it at the moment. When i was a teen i got big into Computer games and i strayed from model railroading a bit but what kept me doing it the most was the train shows. I have presented my layout or helped my day out in atleast 1 show every year for over 13 years now. The way the kids looked at my layout year after year at the shows kept me fixed in the hobby. Now I am building a new layout in ho scale (11' by 12') and i am building some military n scale modules to run with my dads layout. It does take time to figure out how to do things right on a layout or what type of layout you want. I have had so many different layouts through out the years but i think i finally got a design like. It takes time to get your talents down. When i started i had some very bad building paint jobs on my layout, now my buildings that i am painting look better then some model railroaders that have been doing for alot longer then me. I take pride in helping out the next generation of model railroaders. I have given some of my old stuff that i never plan to use again to them. In there eyes its like payday, the stuff i might have out grown is brand new to them. There eyes just light up when they are having problems makeing stuff work and you come along and show them how to fix it. At the shows that i go to needs more layouts designed for kids. The layouts are well done but if you do not have anything a kids likes he will pass over your layout. Thats why i got into doing military themes on my layouts. Not many people do military themes these days so it was a way to make my layout different. I have seen kids flock to my layout year after year to see what i have did with the military. To some i am known as only the Military Guy.
Maybe one reason is it's frustrating. I kept having problems with my Atlas switcher today. It kept stalling and loosing power. I slammed the table and kicked it and went up stairs. Sometimes it can get very stressful. I was tempted to dismantle my whole layout today, but I was just angry and tomorrow I have to go down and put all the rolling stock back on the track.
While certainly a laudable effort and one which I applaud Justin for, exposure to a train display for a few minutes, at a couple of train shows per year, is highly unlikely to blossom into any life-long interest in model railroading. As Larry777 points out (and I vividly recall too), real trains and model trains were a distinct part of just about everyone's life fifty-odd years ago, at the height of the hobby's cross-generational attraction. Years ago if you went on a trip of any distance, you went on a train. From your backyard you could hear the whistles of distant trains passing through town. It was of considerable family interest, even exciting, to be held up at a railroad crossing and to see the train pass by. Today this is only looked upon as a decided inconvience - even if one that only occurs on very rare occasions. If one sees real trains on TV today, it is only because there has been a wreck, or that service is being curtailed or discontinued on yet another line. How inspiring is that? Years back Lionel had name recognition equal to Coca Cola. At Christmastime you typically saw half the floor space in the toy departments of department stores (as well as one of their streetside show windows) turned over fully to toy trains. Christmas, itself, was for boys more about toy trains than anything else. In the same period both Lionel and Flyer had weekly TV shows. To those who tout today's Thomas as the hobby's savior, I would point out that Thomas is no more than a live action cartoon, aimed largely at entertaining the pre-K segment of the population with parables. As such, it is rather unlikely to instill any future adult interest in actual model railroading. Lionel, et al., aimed at pre-teens AND their fathers, an entirely different situation and one which explains their great success in decades past. Little wonder that more than 75% of today's scale hobbyists evolved from kids who had Lionel, Flyer, or Marx toy trains in their youth. Hobbyists today need to come to grips with the reality that interest in model railroading by succeeding generations is growing significant less and less. Any teen today who compares say video games to model railroading is going to immediately favor the former. For $500 you can get a video gaming system, plus some games, that is fully and instantly operational on bringing it home from the store. For that same sum in model trains you get a pile of boxes and materials and can look forward to many weeks, if not months, of work before you have anything of worth and play value. In an "I want it NOW" generation, how can model railroading possibly compete successfully? Sorry to sound so downbeat but this is the reality of the current situation. My advice would be to enjoy the hobby today for yourself and dispense with any concern about its future. NYW&B
Pretty good and long thread. Mainly because this is (to me anyway) an important topic. I have no clue as to what the numbers are w/ respect to "young-uns" getting into the hobby. I only know what see. I WILL SAY this past Saturday I attended the Great Scale Model Train Show in Timonium, MD. While there I noticed a significant number of folks that I would say are 35 years old and less. Some teens, some in their 20's (from my perspective anyway). Many weren't just there gawking at trains. Many were carrying bags of goodies, meaning dollars spent. For the spring show (which is usually down in numbers) there was a good crowd there on Saturday and the number of younger modelers appeared pretty good to my eye.
Anyone who is an NMRA member and gets Scale Rails should look at the May issue that just came out. Craig Martyn of BLMA is profiled. I know he is on this board from time to time, too. Anyway, here's a guy who started making his own detail parts and formed a company... and he's 23 years old! Go Craig! Adam P.S. I have no affiliation with BLMA or Craig Martyn, except that I have bought some of his N scale detail parts and I have been happy with them.
Old dog again An issue of the JAN 1959 MR and a $12 Athearn "Black WIdow" set got me started in model railroading. My dad explained DC current to me. I got excited making "trees" out of lichen and yard debris. Now, I consider myself a medium-skilled modeler. But when my grandson asks me what "DCC" is, I can't explain it very well. I don't like feeling stupid (yes, if the shoe fits...). Technology chased me through my career; now it's challenging me in my hobby. I'd love to pass model railroading to the grandkids, but it's gonna be challenging. One is whimpering that he can't find his Blackberry. What the frip is a "Blackberry?!" In a post I read yesterday (re: expecting perfection or not of a new-release loco) in which the contributor said something like, "If you can't stand the heat, then get out of the kitchen." Hmmm - there's a message there - I'm just having trouble putting it in words. Analog Scott
Well, I just got back from a fairly long trip - all of 1100km there and back again. I did drive my car, but only because it's a very nice car. I also made a point of stopping to photograph train bits on the way, and another point of going for a ride on commuter rail. Will have to post photos on RailImages sometime.. So the hobby and the real world cross over sometimes P.s: a blackberry is a leash-in-a-box that your boss gives you so he can make you work at any time. Telephone, Email, Stress, Pain. Thankfully the things are not waterproof, so any trip to a vacation resort is (or quickly becomes) Blackberry free Could we blame technology for adding to the "Instant Gratification" generation?
I was also gonna mention Craig Martyn as well. Also another manufacturer, Nu-Line Structures - also based here in Southern California, is run by Bill Walker, a relatively young guy (in his 30s).
It seems that a great many people can appreciate fine art - Until they find out how much time it took to put it together. After that it's just a waste of time, effort, and worth very little to them and they walk away. That has been the hurdle in the baby boomer generation - many peopl there cannot grasp why someone would wat to spend a great amount of time working on any one thing or towards a goal that is over 10 years away - for something that is a mere plaything. But it appears more children have this understanding of the world now. I suppose it is because they could not look up to their parents, so they looked up to their grandparents, and found an example there that explained all the shortcomings in their own parents. How can you be proud of your father when the car alternator breaks and he can't fix it after watching your grandpa fix the engine in the old 280Z...by taking the engine out and completely disassembling it and then reassembling it? And grandpa isn't a mechanic - never was either...Not that my grandpa has done this, but it's just an example... My girlfriend looked at me with perplexed eyes when I told her I was converting my car from a generator to an alternator by myself - and then I finished it too, had to get a special bracket but it all works now. Too many people are at the confidence level that they Can't Do anything, so nothing complicated gets done...
"Can't Do It" never fixed anything. I run into a problem with my house or car or whatever, and I figure that if someone can figure it out so can I. Calling into the retired operating engineer crowd (my dad and his friends) I have gotten all sorts of advice on how to fix my refrigerator (turned out to be the defrost timer switch - diagnosed over the PHONE no less) to what a certain sound under the hood of my car might be to what is the best place to go to buy such and such spare part to how to do most kinds of home repairs. My dad was either too stubborn or too poor to hire people to fix things most times, so I helped out. That has carried over into model railroading. Most of this stuff isn't so complicated that a person with moderate skills and the ability to follow written instructions can't figure out, and for anything that falls through the cracks there are places like this board. Adam
Adam, but you recognize, I am sure, how many people there are who say "We Can't." And then the ones who say - "I Can't WASTE my time learning how to do THAT." And finally the ones who say "I Can't Waste my time Doing that Anymore!" But model railroading that produced Landmark Layouts really does require a large degree of "I did all of that today, and I will do all of that tomorrow, and it does not matter if the next day is my funeral or not, because that is how it will get done and I enjoy doing it...
